My Tog Blog About Awesome Content Creation

Building a Business Foundation for Your Content Creation, with Jessy Grossman

• Jesse Grossman • Season 2 • Episode 23

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What's the best way to establish a solid business foundation for your content creation? Start with a "business first" rather than a "content first" approach.

Thanks to Riverside.fm for sponsoring this episode. It's an excellent tool for recording and editing both video and audio. You can try it out with a 15% discount using the code MyTogBlog.  Check it out here. (Note: This is an affiliate link, which means I would earn a commission if you make a purchase using this link.)

In this episode, we'll talk with Jessy Grossman,  an experienced entrepreneur who created one of the fastest-growing influencer talent agencies in the country and has been quoted in the New York Times, Forbes, and other publications.

In 2017, Jessy launched Women in Influencer Marketing (WIIM), an organization that works to connect, educate, and empower women in the influencer marketing sector. Building on her experience as a talent manager, Jessy and her team have grown WIIM into a community with over 4,500 members and more than 300 associated brands. In doing so, they incorporated content creation as one aspect of a broader marketing strategy that rested on an existing business foundation—a model worth considering for content creators looking to monetize their brands.

In our discussion, Jessy shares her insights on monetization models, the importance of the buyer journey, success factors for influences, and challenges women face in influencer marketing, among other topics.

There's a lot here for anyone looking to monetize their content business!

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[00:00:00] Tim: Hey everyone, my name's Tim. And today's episode is brought to you by our sponsor, Riverside FM. Riverside is a great solution for all your podcast video and audio recording and editing needs. Ever since I launched this podcast, all of the interview portions of my shows have been produced in Riverside.

[00:00:16] As a beginner podcaster, one of the things I've always appreciated about Riverside is how easy and intuitive it made it to produce quality video and audio files. Even with little experience, I was able to get started pretty quickly and produce my first episode. And it's nice to know there are a ton of learning resources and support there for when you do want to dive deeper.

[00:00:38] I even used it to record my first lives for YouTube, and it made that easy, too. Check out the link in my description and use the code MyTogBlog for a 15 percent discount. And now, onto the show.

[00:00:51] Tim: So I'm going to go out on a bit of a limb here today and say that I think most content creators begin their journey with the notion of creating content around a topic that they enjoy. And it's only later that they try to develop a business model that can sustain their content creation from a financial perspective.

[00:01:13] And that's just fine if you're still figuring out what you want to do, or if you're approaching content creation as a hobby or a side hustle where you're not dependent upon the income that's being generated. But if you're planning to approach this as a full-time business, the problem with the content-first approach is that it leaves too much up to chance.

[00:01:31] It leaves it up to chance that your chosen topic is one that aligns with a sufficient market demand to create a full-time business. And it also leaves it up to chance that your skills in that area have at least the potential to meet or exceed, or somehow differentiate yourself, from the competition.

[00:01:48] But what if you reversed everything? And instead of trying to build a business model on top of your hobby, you start with a core business idea where you know there's a sizable market and that you know can build upon existing skills that you already have. That, I think, would give you a much higher chance of success as a full-time creator.

[00:02:09] And that is the approach taken by my guest in today's episode, Jessy Grossman. Jessy is the founder of Women in Influencer Marketing. A community that has over 4,500 members and more than 300 brands associated with it. Jessy is a longtime entrepreneur in digital media, and she's been quoted in the New York Times and Forbes; and in less than two years, she created one of the fastest-growing influencer talent agencies in the country.

[00:02:36] And I think she has some great insights to share here about how she built a business that's supported by content creation rather than the other way around. So let's get into it.

[00:02:45] Hi, Jessy. Welcome to the show. 

[00:02:47] Jessy: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. 

[00:02:49] Tim: Yeah, thank you very much for joining. 

[00:02:51] Could you tell us a little bit about how you got started and what in your journey brought you to where you are today? 

[00:02:58] Jessy: Yeah, so it's quite a long windy road, but I'll spare you all the details. But you know, I work in the creator economy and in a very niche place. So I have a, you know, this community called Women in Influencer Marketing.

[00:03:13] It's a professional networking organization for all intents and purposes, but it's so much more than that. You know, I come from a talent management background. So I used to represent influencers and like transparently the reason Wim even became a thing was just because I was looking to make more deals for my clients and meet more people to do them with.

[00:03:34] So so, you know, Wim was originally a passion project while I had my real job, quote-unquote, you know, where I was a talent manager. And once I ended up selling years later, I ended up selling my management company. 

[00:03:51] And so it was at that point where I was like, Hmm, like what to do next. I could go work for somebody else again. I could go launch something completely new. Or I can give this passion project that I had been working on for a few years at that point, a real go. So, That was the decision. It was like a very scary one. It was like the middle, like not even the middle, like the beginning of the pandemic more or less, but arguably it was when people like sort of needed that community the most.

[00:04:21] So it took a big chance and that's sort of the origin stories of WIIM. So, you know, Yes, now, present day, I do consider myself a content creator to a certain extent. It's funny because I feel like there are a handful of people who are in like similar lane that I'm in. And we all sort of struggle with like how to identify ourselves because certainly don't feel like a creator in the like the traditional sense.

[00:04:48] But you know, more like the thought leader, like the B2B space feels more fitting. And yeah, we, I, I feel just like in the world that we're living in, once we continue to monetize the community and you know, we do that with sponsorships and we do that with memberships, it was sort of just a no brainer that we had to master content in order to grow it. 

[00:05:16] And so, you know, we are still perfecting what that looks like. You know, for us, it's on the social platforms. Of course, we have like a presence on Instagram, but I have a bigger presence on LinkedIn and I have a bigger presence on our podcast. So, you know, not all content looks the same.

[00:05:34] And I think that's something that I've learned where when we first started, I assumed that our biggest platform had to be, you know, Instagram or TikTok. And that's actually like. It's not the most fitting place for where our audience is. So I think that was a big lesson learned, which is just produce your best stuff where your audience lives, you know?

[00:05:56] Tim: Yeah, for sure. And I think the other thing that creators struggle with is that alignment of like, this is my approach to content creation and this is where I can find my audience. And so therefore, this is how the business connects to the content. Did, did you have that all mapped out or did you kind of, it sounds like maybe more discovered it as you, as you went along.

[00:06:17] Jessy: Oh, yeah. Definitely not mapped out. I think that's like one of the biggest misnomers of business in general is that like, you know, only the people who went and got an MBA or like some sort of formal education, or basically like new learned the answers before doing it, are the ones who are successful. 

[00:06:34] I think that's just. It's not, that's never been my experience. My experience is that like the best entrepreneurs, especially, they experiment and they learn what works for them, and what works for their business, and you can learn and pivot from it too. So we're constantly experimenting when it comes to content, when it comes to running the community broadly.

[00:06:57] You know, our, our business is constantly changing. Like our responsibility is to have a pulse on what our community needs and what they want, and that can change it at any given moment. And so that like change and changes and affects the business. And so, well, I don't know a ton of businesses quite like mine. I know that there's a similarity in other businesses too. So that's our experience 

[00:07:19] Tim: Yeah, and I think that's something that the audience would be particularly interested in is you have developed a monetization model and how does that work with your business? How do you earn income as a creator?

[00:07:32] Jessy: Yeah, so we are predominantly membership-based. We have a monthly membership and we have a yearly membership. We have right now about 450 members and you know, they pay for access, for education, for events. You know, there's a whole lot of things that are included in that membership, but that's the main way.

[00:07:56] And then as we've grown this past year was the first year when we had significant amounts of people who are interested in reaching that community. So once you build it, then there are people who want to. Sell to them or speak to them in some capacity. And that's when we've been just starting to be able to sell in sponsorships at those events, whether they're virtual or in person or, you know, on our podcast, things like that.

[00:08:22] So it's certainly been a journey and like. Different revenue streams have opened up as we've grown and sort of like evolved as an organization but those are the two primary ways that we that we monetize it. 

[00:08:36] Tim: Yeah, that's excellent. And I guess I like kind of like the content model. It wasn't wasn't mapped out.

[00:08:43] It's probably something you discovered along the way or worked through.

[00:08:46] Jessy: Oh, yeah. Like even in terms of what do we charge for the membership? I mean, that's, that's changed and we've had to learn, you know, what does that even look like? You know, we have some people who have been with us since day one when we launched the official membership and that was in 2020, the very, like November of 2020 and those people, rightfully so, are locked into that price because I was like, if you buy in now, your price will never increase. And, you know, some people pay, I think that price, if I remember correctly, it's around 200 for the year. So now our annual price is up to $499, but those people like helped us build what we are today.

[00:09:27] So they sort of got grand, we call it grandmothered. We're like a woman's focused organization versus grandfathered, grandmothered in. And you know, we've, but we've had experiment like what prices fit, you know, we're, targeting anywhere from people just graduating college to people who are well off in their career.

[00:09:45] Not everybody has the same budget. So, you know, that's why we launched a student discount. And you know, that's why we run promotions, and just trying to figure out there's a lot of psychology when it comes to pricing. And so that's something that we've had to learn a lot along the way. 

[00:10:01] Tim: Yeah. It's funny you mentioned about the pricing and I have a few software services that I got in early on. And it's like, I'll never let that go. Now, you got in at the, at the early price, and it's then as the business builds, you get so much more value out of it. 

[00:10:18] Jessy: A hundred percent. 

[00:10:18] Tim: Yeah. It's great that you're able to you know, continue expanding it and, and add additional members. And then do you have, I guess, for lack of a better term, a funnel constructed? Where it's like people discover you, and maybe there's some low-ticket offers, and then kind of a medium kind of offer and then the membership, I guess, would be kind of the capstone offer.

[00:10:39] Jessy: So, we do, I think, like, I mean, transparently, I always think that what we have can always be improved upon. We have that in a few different capacities. Like we use our email marketing program that we use, we use MailerLite. I happen to be a big fan of theirs. They have some like funnels and automation sequences and things like that.

[00:11:00] So when people get into our email system they sort of like work through a funnel sequence. We also, for example, we started back in 2017, as a Facebook group. And so we still have people to this day, a lot of people who apply to be in that Facebook group. And you know, those are leads. A lot of word of mouth. We also have our own affiliate program, where people who have been members of WIIM for a year or more are now eligible to be affiliates for us. And so, you know, they're referring people. 

[00:11:34] In 2024, we're going very heavily into lots of different local markets throughout the country. This year we held a few very large tentpole events in some major markets like New York, L. A. and Chicago. But next year, we're getting into some secondary and even some smaller tertiary markets. And, when we're in them, our goal is to, you know, to meet more people and sort of build up those more local communities and get them to want to join because of that additional added value. And the people who are our ambassadors in those cities are affiliates for us as well. So we're kind of like attacking things from a number of different angles and just seeing which one works best for us. 

[00:12:17] Tim: Love it. Yeah. It reminds me a lot of like building the audience on the content creation side. You have multiple channels, and people discover you and then hopefully become more engaged, maybe moving from like shorter form kind of content to longer form content and yeah, just bringing the, bringing the customer along on the, on the buyer journey as it were. 

[00:12:38] And that's that's one of the things I think that has been the biggest difference I've noticed with people starting out in content creation, and focusing entirely on that awareness piece and the more experienced creators that do incorporate like the whole buyer journey and the different parts of it that can, you know, lead to building the business foundation. So, yeah, I appreciate hearing how you're working on that. 

[00:13:04] Jessy: I also think it's important to meet people where they are too, like, not everybody consumes content in the same way. Like, I'm a big podcast consumer. I just love listening to podcasts, but I also watch some podcasts on YouTube and I'm a big YouTube consumer.

[00:13:19] Like I'm this person who watches YouTube on my television. So, you know, and then some people were like, I would never do that. I'm just scrolling on TikTok or on Instagram all day. So I think it's a matter of meeting people where they are in a number of different capacities. 

[00:13:32] Cause I've had people who like tune into our podcast and you can do that for free, right? There's zero barrier to entry for that. And, you know, we sort of build a relationship, like a rapport with each other, as they listen to me talk about God knows what for like an hour every single week. And you know, that does something to a person, you know, and, and you know, the conversions, if that's what we're talking about, monetization, like it doesn't. Like sometimes it happens immediately, but it's so rare that it does. I think that it's really important and way more common that, you know, you nurture those relationships. And, you know, when the time is right, that person sticks and usually they, I find that they'll stay a lot longer. If that nurturing sort of happens organically and on their timeline, right? 

[00:14:27] Tim: Yeah, I think that some great advice there. 

[00:14:30] Is there something you wish that you would have known earlier as a business person? 

[00:14:34] Jessy: That's a good question. I mean, I can certainly like rattle off a bunch of things, but the broader answer is like, I actually enjoy learning along the way. I don't know if it's like the masochistic side of myself, but like, I don't really look at things as like failures ever. I really genuinely look at them as opportunities to learn and grow. And that's part of what I love about just running my own, owning my own business is that, you know, I don't know, I can like expand all the things that I know and whatever I want to learn, I can, because I could just build that side of my business.

[00:15:08] And so I have fun with it. I, I, I think I wouldn't, I would miss out on all those opportunities if I like quote unquote "knew", you know, fill in the blank. So I kind of enjoy the process and so that's just me. 

[00:15:22] Tim: That's awesome. I think it's and it kind of relates to my next question, which is like, what is a critical success factor for somebody that wants to be an influencer today?

[00:15:32] Jessy: So to be an influencer, I mean, I think, you know, this is a question that we worked through a lot when I was managing talent, right? Which is as a talent manager, you're working with influencers who are ultimately their own business owners, they're all entrepreneurs at the end of the day, and being so they all have very individual needs and very individual goals. Right? 

[00:15:56] And so, I think that, you know, my success might be so different from yours. I think most influencers would say that, you know, their success comes from the ability to monetize and to really be able to focus on what they enjoy doing and to be able to, you know, reach, a lot of people or, at least like a meaningful amount of people to make impact. 

[00:16:23] But you can meet influencers who don't want any of that and they just want, you know, brand deal after brand deal. And they're like, oh, hawk any product. I don't really care because I'm making a lot of money. And, that's fine. Like, I really have no shame in, you know, in supporting that if that's what they want to do.

[00:16:39] But I also think that as a creator, your goals and your desires change over time because as you sort of reach those certain milestones and you're like, oh my God, I didn't even think I could do that. Well, great. I'm here. What's next? I think that's why people like talent managers and you know, just having a good team around you can be really helpful because the sky is really the limit when you're a creator because there's so much opportunity out there and it's great to have that perspective to know what is realistic.

[00:17:11] What does that timeline look like for when that can be achieved? Like, how can I get there and not take this like circuitous path? And also, like, once I have reached that place where I achieved the goal I wanted like six months ago, where I thought it would take five years, now, I'm here. What else could I, could I do?

[00:17:31] There's so many different revenue streams. There's so many different ways to, you know, to build, an empire and it's all really possible. So I think it's also just having the self awareness to know what's fulfilling to you. 

[00:17:44] Tim: Yeah, that's really interesting. And I think it is one of the hardest things, you know, when you're a creator is to have that objective insight into what's the next step. And, I could see where like a team and talent management could be very helpful because it is difficult to separate yourself and you're kind of like, I don't know, the short-term pulls, I guess, sometimes on, on what you could create and kind of a longer-term vision, which, you know, the outside perspective is, is so helpful for, I think.

[00:18:16] Jessy: Yeah, absolutely. I think like management generally provides like a lot of different things. But I think one of the most valuable things that people don't really talk about is just that perspective. You know, like they're just privy to so many different conversations, and so much knowledge, and they can just give you that outside educated opinion.

[00:18:36] And I think that is like, so, so, so valuable for creators who at some moments can certainly feel like you're, you know, you're working in this silo, and like a little bubble, and you know, you don't have coworkers. You know, a lot of creators, they're just solopreneurs. They don't have a team. So to be able to have somebody to riff ideas off of, to have someone who can just share what they've experienced in, you know, other scenarios that are comparable to yours. Like it's really invaluable to have that. 

[00:19:05] Tim: Yeah. I guess this is one of the main ways in which you help content creators and influencers. 

[00:19:11] Jessy: Yeah, so I work rarely with creators directly. Like I, like our community, predominantly is the people who hire influencers, or who advocate for influencers. But that being said, in 2024, we actually are launching our first membership for creators. And I really wanted it to be like very like tactical. So we're starting with casting opportunities and brand partnership opportunities that are going to be shared directly from our professional network of WIIM. And we're launching that for creators. So, that's like the way that WIIM helps creators.

[00:19:52] I certainly work with some creators, just on like a coaching basis. And it's just like, for me, it's fulfilling, like it's fun because it's so similar to what I used to do as a talent manager. I love coaching. So I coach managers as well.

[00:20:07] But yeah, the coaching is a small side of my business. It's like a select few, you know, where I get to really, truly do it. Cause it's fun to do. And I get to see like the fruits of their labor, being able to be, you know, growing their business and everything. But that's how I personally work with creators.

[00:20:22] Tim: Okay. And I could see in your business that connection that you're going to be creating between creators and, and buyers. That'll be a great nexus between those two. 

[00:20:33] And, I know that your organization is Women In Influencer Marketing. What are some of the challenges that women face, in particular, as influencers?

[00:20:41] Jessy: I mean, there's a lot of things. Predominantly, confidence. I think that that's the thing that I see the most often where like, you know, we're not living in the 1950s. So like, you know, most of the women in our group, like thankfully have been exposed to, you know, women who are breaking boundaries and doing incredible things.

[00:20:59] But I think that, you know, some of us get scared of doing the same. Of like, well, like that looks amazing. And I aspire to do that. But, you know, what does that look like in practical terms, like in my everyday life? Like, can I really risk that? Like that seems a little too dangerous and they're just nervous, and scared.

[00:21:18] And so, you know, the thing that holds a lot of women back, unfortunately, is themselves. And so, you know, what we try to do at WIIM, and what I think we've done really successfully is just created a network of like a support system. So, you know, when you have those questions, you don't have to just wonder if I'm going to like fall on my face.

[00:21:38] You have like hundreds of people who have gone through this same thing, are currently going through the same thing, and can certainly have support for you. Or, you know, in most cases, give you actual like, practical advice of like, here's what to do. I already like messed up. You don't have to make the same mistake. 

[00:21:54] You know, the networking opportunities are huge too. Just having partners. You know, there are so many people who, you know, started out at these large agencies or working on the big social platforms or working, you know, in-house.

[00:22:07] Brands that have gone off on their own and started businesses of their own, whether, you know, their consultants, or small businesses, or their own agencies. And, you know, it's really exciting to see partnerships between various companies happen because you just, you have that strong network of people and you can all work together.

[00:22:28] So yeah, that's just one of the many ways I think we like. We overcome some of those challenges. 

[00:22:35] Tim: I could see that as being so helpful because there is that element of risk in, in content creation and putting yourself out there. And, you know, to have a support network, which is very helpful and, and, and also the connections you mentioned because that's also equally important in, in any industry including content creation.

[00:22:53] And I think, again, there's something that sometimes beginner creators will underestimate. They will go that route of like trying to reach these mass audiences through content or going viral when really a lot of what could help them is making more of a meaningful or a deeper connection with a few people that are kind of in just ahead of them or, you know, in a related space 

[00:23:17] Jessy: Yeah, those relationships are like invaluable, like really, I mean, I'm a little bit like drinking the Kool Aid, obviously I own a networking group, but even before, I mean, the reason I started it is I've just personally, like firsthand seen the power of networking and of, you know, building your network and, and knowing people. I'm part of other networking groups presently. You know, I just joined one a couple of weeks ago that I'm really excited about, actually. But I just think it's great to, you know, to know people and to broaden your network, broaden your horizons.

[00:23:46] Like this new community that I joined, like, I'm just excited to be in the passenger seat a little bit, to be honest, and sit back and like learn from other people who are way more experienced than I am. And, so there's lots of benefits to it. 

[00:24:01] Tim: Yeah, definitely. And I, and I've definitely seen that, you know, even people who are creators themselves and might even have a community, are also part of communities because of that, that beneficial aspect to it.

[00:24:12] Jessy: Yeah, absolutely. I think that like, you know, they're like business coaches have business coaches, you know, if you really believe it, then you, you know, you buy into it fully. And like, I just think it like a, a life well lived is where you're just continuing to learn and grow. So that's what I think at least I just love like meeting really smart, like open minded people and get to learn so much and grow as a person, you know? 

[00:24:39] Tim: Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's talk about how social media fits into all of this. I saw that you have accounts for Instagram TikTok, YouTube, the X app and so on. And what would you say is your main social media platform and why that one? 

[00:24:56] Jessy: So it's actually LinkedIn. Okay. I'm part of the LinkedIn creator program. I've been incredibly active on it for, you know, years at this point, but creating content there, like as a content creator now for at least a couple of years at this point. And there's a whole community there, you know, but again, like I'm in the B2B business. So it makes sense for us to be there. But LinkedIn has grown into this place that not a lot, not everybody realizes, you know, it is truly its own social media platform and it's not what it used to be. So you know, we have a really big presence on LinkedIn and I, I love it. And I also am able to convert business from it which is fantastic. 

[00:25:37] Our podcast is also a huge place for us. We're sort of in more unique places. The podcast. You know, we've had the podcast now for years and I think we're like, I don't know, we're well over 200 episodes. So you know, it's, it's its own well oiled machine. It's definitely changed over the years, but yeah the podcast is, is something that is pretty pivotal to our growth as a community. I think like a lot of people both want to be guests on it, but also, you know, listen to it fairly consistently as well.

[00:26:11] So yeah, those are our two biggest platforms. 

[00:26:14] Tim: Well, that's amazing. I mean, a podcast I think is one of the harder platforms to grow. So having been able to grow that as a really great achievement. And yeah, LinkedIn is an interesting option. It's not, I think, used as much by creators because it, it still maybe has that perception of a business you know, networking site, as opposed to like a content creation site. But at the same time, I've heard good things about it as a platform that has really good organic discovery, and like you say, obviously for business to business sales, they're definitely an advantage to that. 

[00:26:50] So do you with the other platforms, do you kind of see them just as, as broader extensions? And do you tend to, like, repost stuff from LinkedIn? Or are you creating original content for the other platforms? 

[00:27:04] Jessy: So our process tends to be that we will create content, and then sort of customize it to fit the nuances of every platform because each platform is slightly different. So, you know, for example, we announced we have our first masterclass of 2024 that we, you know, are promoting today.

[00:27:25] And so, you know, we created a carousel, but then we posted it also to our Instagram stories, because we wanna a link to the, you know, page to RSVP. Then we also, you know, posted on LinkedIn. It looks a little different. 

[00:27:39] And I try not to actually post this way, but I, I liked how the carousel looked. So on LinkedIn you refer to it as a document . Okay. Instead of a carousel . And it's like a PDF version of it. You know, we, we try to change up the text a little bit, depending on the audience that's there, you know, and then sometimes we'll convert it into a reel, which then is a TikTok and also on YouTube shorts and, you know, a lot of like, we have a newsletter as well.

[00:28:08] So in our newsletter, we usually have like a, the first section that's sort of like an introductory, like, I want to hook you in type section where I try to get a little bit more personal with our audience sometimes to, and you know, that usually will get reposted on. Those do really well on LinkedIn.

[00:28:28] I'll tell you, the posts that do the best on LinkedIn are the ones that usually are not about business at all whatsoever. So it's just like a little bit behind the scenes of what it is.

[00:28:37] Tim: Right. 

[00:28:37] Jessy: As a professional, but like more is just a person. . And then, sometimes I'll convert that into a whole topic on the podcast.

[00:28:44] Tim: Right. 

[00:28:44] Jessy: So, I'm really efficient though when it comes to my business and I'm like a nerd when it comes to creating processes for things. So that's certainly like no different when it comes to content creation. And so maybe that's just how my brain works, but like I'll have a seed and then we sort of branch that out and morph it into slightly different ways depending on where it's posted.

[00:29:05] Tim: It makes sense. I think that adaptation is really important because you know, consumers, viewers nowadays can really tell if something's just straight reposted, you know, kind of, okay, that, that's an Instagram post, just, you know, repurposed onto Twitter or, or what have you. It's a, it's fairly obvious. And then it kind of decreases engagement because I think the viewer feels like. Okay, they didn't even bother to adapt it for this platform. So 

[00:29:34] Jessy: Definitely. 

[00:29:35] Tim: So, that's really great that you've got that fine tuning in place. And then the, the thing that we're focusing on this year and in, in the season of the podcast is YouTube.

[00:29:46] So how does YouTube fit into the wider plan? 

[00:29:50] Jessy: YouTube is a beast. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm a YouTube consumer. So I also like really like respect the medium. For the most part, what we're producing on there, we're just sharing our podcast on there. But we've been consistently recording every single podcast on video. Editing it, you know, video first. So, you know, that goes on to our YouTube. 

[00:30:12] It's a very small, almost is like practically non existent channel, but I'm building it because I like watching podcasts, you know, and it's just another place to meet people and to have people discover us. So we post on there.

[00:30:26] When I'm interviewing people, I think it's nice to be able to sort of look them in the eye and have that experience as well. So that's another reason why we do it. And then, you know, occasionally, we were posting pretty consistently on shorts for a while, and it was getting some traction too, which was really interesting, but very little conversion.

[00:30:46] So I'm still trying to figure out how YouTube works for us. I've definitely seen some other people in the B2B space though kill it on YouTube. There's a lawyer who I know who specializes in, you know, all things creator economy and, you know, but her videos feel like a YouTube video, you know, like it's not just me on a, you know, podcast with very little editing. Like there's a, a look and a feel to YouTube for the most part. And she embraces that. . And that's probably why she's doing significantly better than I am on there. 

[00:31:24] So again, it's a process. There's only also so many hours in the day. And eventually we'll get there, and we'll keep improving, but for now we're just sort of posting out there and sort of seeing what happens. 

[00:31:34] Tim: Yeah, for sure. Like I definitely agree with YouTube, there's there's so much to it. It's, it's like a lot of other platforms and, and you almost have to be very devoted to it and, and focused on that in order to, to grow it, you know? And I, I feel like it's the same with like Instagram or probably LinkedIn or any kind of other platform, the, the consistency, and knowing the nuances of the platform and producing like primarily for that first all becomes so important. 

[00:32:03] But yeah, I do like the podcast element of YouTube because it's like you say, I think it adds a dimension to a podcast if you can actually see the people and it's kind of nice it's a nice additional channel to share podcast content on.

[00:32:17] Jessy: And they're also trying to lean into podcasts as well, you know, like they've launched, it's very slow moving, but you know, they have they've launched some features that are just very specifically, you know, For podcasters and for consumers of podcasters. So, I'm excited to sort of see what they continue to build and if they can sort of attract more people who like podcasts and that just means more discoverability for us.

[00:32:46] I mean, it's owned by Google. Like people just forget that, you know, it's like a Google owned, Alphabet owned company. And, it's like the second largest search engine. Like, so many people just go to YouTube when they're looking for, you know, XYZ topic or an answer to something and they just want to watch it in a video format.

[00:33:03] So there's just so many people there and there's so much strategy that can be implemented. It's just a matter of focusing on it and prioritizing it. 

[00:33:12] Tim: Yeah, and that's, that's a good point. One of the things that's nice is it can be indexed by Google, like your, your podcast episodes. So that's another, another side benefit of that. 

[00:33:22] And Shorts, they've started to make some good changes where you can, like, you can create a clip and then have it, the related video. That you put in the podcast clip on the Short can be your long form podcast. So I've been trying that a little bit more. It's, it's like everything else. It's varied success, but it's it's nice when you see it working out. 

[00:33:43] Jessy: For sure.

[00:33:45] Tim: Yeah, and then, could you tell us a little bit more about specifically your business and how, you know, it would how it would help other other influencers, people who are content creators, who be interested in getting involved. 

[00:33:59] Jessy: Yeah, so, you know, again, our main core business of WIIM is for the people who like power the creator economy in terms of those who, you know, agencies and management companies and brands. So, if that's you, our core WIM membership is perfect for you. 

[00:34:16] If you're a creator though. Keep an eye out because in the very beginning of 2024, we're going to be launching our very first creator membership, which is going to be a Slack community, and we are going to be posting a ton of casting opportunities and brand partnership opportunities for you there. 

[00:34:34] It's going to be a, an opportunity to just network with other creators as well. We're going to be sharing, you know, industry news that you should know about and a lot more to come. And then in addition, you know, I do coaching and it's some work that I, again, I'm just really, I love it.

[00:34:50] You know, I love working more hands on with creators. So if you're a creator and you're looking to sort of think big picture about like how to grow, how to, you know, strategically grow your business as a whole. I love working with creators and that's my consultancy that does that. It's not through WIIM. And my consultancy is called Tribe Monday. So that's another way that I can work with creators. 

[00:35:13] Tim: Excellent. Well, thank you very much. And thank you for joining me today, Jessy. I really appreciate the chance to talk with you. 

[00:35:19] Jessy: Yeah, it was fun. Thanks for having me. 

[00:35:22] Tim: So one of the things that this episode with Jesse got me thinking about is the importance of a niche focus for a YouTube channel. Now, I know this is a topic that is talked about frequently as it relates to content creation, but I think that many creators still struggle with how to define their niche in a way that makes sense for monetization, because they're approaching it the wrong way.

[00:35:44] For example, a lot of creators will think about their niche as a topic. They'll say like, I'm interested in YouTube, so my niche is everything about YouTube. The problem with this approach is that it's not really very compelling. In the sense that it doesn't really differentiate you from the many other channels out there offering similar advice about YouTube.

[00:36:03] You've got to go deeper than that, and I think what Jessy has done with her business and her content offers an important clue about how to do it. 

[00:36:10] If we think about it, Jessy didn't start with a topic. She started with the skill sets that she had, thought about what she was passionate about, and what there was a market demand for, and then combined those three things together to offer a distinctive solution to the market.

[00:36:25] So we can replicate this ourselves by starting with what we're good at, or at least have the potential to become good at. Because if you want to start charging people money for this product or service, it's got to be something that creates value for them. And of course, the more value that we create, the more we can charge for our product or service.

[00:36:43] So we'll start with a list of skills, and then on that list, identify the things that you're most passionate about. I mean, if you're a whiz with accounting software, but you're not interested in talking about accounting outside of work, then that's probably not the topic for your YouTube channel, because it's not going to be sustainable over the longer term. But let's say you're also good with business strategy, and you like talking about strategy. Now we've got a little bit more to work with. 

[00:37:06] The last step is to think about what there's a market for in terms of what types of people out there have problems you could provide a solution for. 

[00:37:14] Hanging with the idea of YouTube and business strategy, you could say that you're going to help people monetize their YouTube channels. That's better than YouTube in general, but it's still not very distinctive or compelling. This is where we gotta go yet one more level deeper. And this is where you gotta start thinking about what specific kind of insights and solutions you could offer based on your specific experience and your circumstances.

[00:37:40] I went through this process with my own channel, and that's when I realized that I could have something to offer for other people who are also part-time content creators who are looking to grow their audience. And I think this has potential because I know there are a lot of other people who are in similar circumstances of creating content part-time and facing all the challenges that go along with that.

[00:38:01] I also know and understand those challenges very well because I'm facing them myself. So, as a result, as I'm solving these problems for myself as a part-time creator, these solutions should be of interest to other creators in similar circumstances. 

[00:38:15] So if you're struggling with this as well, that's how I'd recommend approaching it. Skill sets, interests, and solutions, and then put that all together and see what you've got. Like Jessy said, you don't have to have this all mapped out on day one. It's probably going to be a process as you refine and evolve things over time. 

[00:38:34] And if you're a woman who is looking to work in influencer marketing, then you can find mentorship and other resources on Jessy's website, which can help you work through this challenge and others that you'll face as content creator. I've added a link to that website in my description, and I've also added a link to my audience avatar template, which can help you define your target audience as content creator. Check it out, and if you found this helpful, consider subscribing. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.